Washers & Dryers Discussions

Let me guess: you're opening the lid to see how high the water goes, right?

To cut to the chase, If you get your user manual and turn to page 4, at the bottom of the left column, you'll see the following:

NOTE: Your washer may be equipped with an Auto Load sensing water level feature that will automatically sense the size of the load and add enough water to efficiently clean it. To ensure the washer determines the proper water level, do not open the lid or stop the washer anytime (sic) during or after the fill. Water may not cover the top level of the clothes. This is normal for Auto Load Sensing washers. For these models, the water fill is optimized by the system for best wash performance.

As is so often the case, reading the manual (or the little yellow sticker that covered up the fabric softener dispenser) would have prevented any confusion. Your sales associate could also have mentioned this.

Please, read pages 3 & 4 of the user manual. It will save you many headaches.

Well to begin with, I am completely literate and DID READ the manual. I am NOT opening the lid to look inside the washer during the fill time. I waited until the washer had COMPLETED filling up THEN opened the lid to see the level filled all the way to the top. This is an issue of using too much water, not having too little that doesn't cover the clothes in the washer. It is clearly stated that opening the lid will essentially bypass the Load Sensing feature. I am talking about a situation of putting clothes in the washer, shutting the lid and letting it do its full fill cycle only to find it filled to the maximum level.

When you peek, do you stop the cycle before you open the lid, then restart it once you re-close the lid?

OK, here is what happens. 1. I put the clothes in the washing machine. 2. I close the lid. 3. I start the cycle. 4. Water flows into the washing machine. 5. I listen until the water stops flowing. 6. I THEN open the lid, AFTER the fill water has stopped only to find that it has filled the tub right up, even for a small load.

" To ensure the washer determines the proper water level, do not open the lid or stop the washer anytime (sic) during or after the fill."

If you are going to open the lid, you have to stop the cycle, then open, then close, then resume. Opening the lid without stopping the cycle first damages the sensor and screws up the filling.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but the manual says not to open the lid during or after filling. You've been opening the lid after filling (directly in contradiction to the instructions).

BlueCrew: Basically you are not listening. The machine stops filling, and the water is found to be too high. What is hard about that? And if simply opening the lid is enough to damage a sensor, this is a very bad design. Nobody should buy a machine that does that.

be sure the hoses are connected correctly to the washer if it wants to regulate the water temp by adding more hot water and it gets cold it will mess up the fill cycle.

Do you even bother to read anything that is posted here or are you just programmed to give responses that are in front of you from a manual? I OPEN THE LID AFTER, I SAID AFTER THE WATER STOPS FILLING THE TUB!!!!!!!! With that being said, the level is right up to the top. Furthermore, you are giving bad advice and false information because if you took the time to read the manual, it clearly states that if the lid is opened OR IF THE CYCLE IS STOPPED AND RESTARTED THAT THE WATER LEVEL WILL FILL RIGHT TO THE TOP. So now you are saying that opening the lid in the middle of the cycle will screw up the sensor? What kind of piece of **** are you people selling? I know the salesman never told me anything about this! I guess it all makes sense now why Sears is getting ready to go out of business!

Feel free to return this to your local Sears where you can recieve a full refund

Voice of Reason.....THANK YOU so much for actually reading my situation and understanding what I am trying to convey here. It is a very simple thing that is going on but trying to get these people to understand it is like pulling teeth. Probably is just a sitauation where they want you to think that everything is the customer's fault and that the customer is doing something wrong instead of stepping up to the plate and admitting that they are selling inferior products that need to be repaired right out of the box!

How long do I have to do that, in other words how many days after the date of purchase?

You can return it anytime you want. 

I apologize if it sounds like I'm not listening. I am listening. And you're telling me, quite clearly, that you're opening the lid after the fill. And the manual says, explicitly, do not open during OR AFTER the fill. If you are opening it after the fill, and the manual says not to open it after the fill...

I'm not trying to be difficult, really. I'm trying to convey very simple information. I know it doesn't FEEL like you're doing something wrong with the machine, but this is not the old-fashioned "dumb" machines. It's got sensors and a computer inside it, and it needs to be used properly. That's why the manual is so explicit in its instructions. Misuse results in damage, same as anything.

As SHC-holidaymom mentioned, you can return it if you so choose.

NO, you are certainly NOT LISTENING! Let me try yet again to explain what is happening. If I let the machine fill, do it's thing, go through it's cycle, untouched, no lid lifted, just going through it's motions, to the point where ALL FILLING IS DONE, as in complete, no more water flowing into the tub, NO FLOW, got that? Then it moves on to the next portion of the washing cycle, IF then you lift the lid, and look at the water level, IT IS AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL, IS THAT CLEAR????? Not low level, not mid level, not 5/8 level, not 3/4 level.......ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP, and this is before any lid was opened!!!!!! Why is this sooooooooooo hard to comprehend? Do I need to draw a diagram or other visual aids?

Trust me, I get it. For the first incident, for the water being higher than expected (if it was higher the first time), I can't explain it. However, by opening the lid, you were doing something directly in contradiction to the instructions (opening after the fill) and that will cause damage to the sensor. I know there's a curiosity factor, and that some people are accustomed to looking in, but that's an urge we must resist.

I'm sure you can see the issue I was having, when it's absolutely clear that you've been doing exactly what I said you were doing, and you continued to disagree. The manual does clearly say to not open during or after the fill. If the fill has ended, with no flow, and you open the lid, that's after the fill. If you open during the washing cycle (not during the fill, but after it), that's still after the fill. Until the cycle has ended, the washer is to remain closed. To open the lid before the end of the cycle, the cycle must be paused by shutting off the cycle. It can be resumed by pushing or pulling the knob (whichever it is on Maytag...I believe pulling turns it on). Opening the lid before the washer has completed its activity, without pausing the cycle, will cause damage to the sensor.

As I said, I can't explain the initial observation, but every time you opened the lid after the fill, you were, though inadvertently, damaging the sensor. If you had called 800 4 MY HOME before opening the lid repeatedly, they might have found a defect (if there was one). By repeatedly opening the door, it is less likely to be a defect and more likely to be damage to the sensor causing excessive filling.

So, to recap: first occurrence, no explanation. Subsequent occurrences, maybe defect, maybe caused by sensor damage. I couldn't say. I'm not trying to find a way to blame you, I'm just saying that arguing that you're not doing what you simultaneously admit you're doing doesn't get the answer any faster. It just gets you riled up for no good reason.

And, the reason I started with this line of questioning is that many other people are experiencing the exact same thing you are, and unintentionally causing damage to their sensors, causing excessive filling, and this has happened so often that there is now a shortage of these sensors. In fact, there's a whole separate thread about the Kenmore 800, which is the Kenmore version of this washer, and this exact topic is the subject of the thread. It is a known issue stemming primarily from user behaviors, and will decrease as people modify their behaviors.

I hope this makes sense. I know it may feel like I'm not listening, but I am. It sounds like there are two issues: a mechanical issue and a behavioral issue. The mechanical issue can be solved by a technician. The behavioral issue (peeking) can't. And I understand that it's frustrating when we purchase something that works differently than we're accustomed to, especially when there's a learning curve and behavioral changes involved. However, we can't modify behaviors until we acknowledge that the behavior is taking place.

Sounds like RacerDave is correct - this is a poorly designed sensor -- if opening the lid during the first week of use damages it --

Certainly couldn't have made it through a good design criteriea system.

AND - If was BlueCrew's boss -- he'd be arguing with the Mass. unemployment board office right now -- Absolutely obnoxious to get into an argument with a customer on-line.  In which you never did convey that you understood that his machine was overfilling -- and that in your opinion it was damaged after the FIRST instace of opening the lid without shutting the unit off --  WHO would ever guess someone would do this -- Most certainly a reasonable and prudent person would -- I'd love to be the lawyer on this one.\

BlueCrew's boss - Please put him back in the Counting Boxes department in the warehouse.

Sometimes being right isn't being right -- learned once is all it should take.

RacerDave3-Sounds like you should call 1-800-4-MY-HOME and have a tech come out to have a look.  If you haven't owned it for very long, they should help you take care of that without charge.  

And to all on this particular post:  Can we call a truce on this thread, please?  : )

Dears RacerDave3,

I apologize for any frustration we may have caused you with your washer. My name is David and I work for the Sears Cares Team. We would like to assist you in resolving this issue. If you can contact us at searscares@searshc.com so we can further discuss your concerns. Please include your screen name (RacerDave3) in your email so we can reference to your case.

Thank you,

David V.

Senior Case Manager

Dear RacerDave3:   I tried to post a message for you yesterday but it was cancelled because, I am told that I included my telephone number in the message.  I understand your frustration because I have the same problem with my brand new Maytag(same as yours).  I would like to discuss this in detail if you can drop me a line at Peergee-at-aol.   thanks

Opening the door during cycle should not damage the sensor, as manual indicates that if you open the lid it will not sense the load and fill the water to maximum level.  ( I agree with that but if I dont open the lid during fill then the washer should be able to use the right level of water.  if I use just enough detergent for a small load and the washer fills all the way,  my load would not come clean either.   Inferior technology and waste of extra money, detergent, and water).

Well I just purchased this machine today and it is to be delivered next week. I am going to the store first thing in the morning to cancel the order. If it's that easy to damage the fill sensor by simply opening the lid then This is very poor design quality coupled with bluecrew's attitude towards a customer tells me to buy from another retailer and skip sears altogether.

My sales person explained if you want to bypass the sensor and get a maximum fill was to lift the lid and close it so the machine would think more laundry was added and fill higher. Now bluecrew says this causes damage?

I had a maytag cenntennial delivered last week and when I wash on regular wash it is so noisy we cannot believe it.  If that was all then we could live with it but....when it spins on regular it vibrates so badly that the jar on  my kitchen counter ( at least 10 ft away) was moving.  I took items out so it was a very light load.  Still vibrated like that.  Today I washed 2 double sheets and a few underwear.  Same thing happened.  Totally unacceptable!!

Has the shipping bolt been removed? If not, this can cause extreme noise and shaking.

I called Maytag today to see if BlueCrewGuy's statement that opening the lid  on this machine either before or after it fills would damage the sensor. I was told that in no way shape form or fashion would opening the lid damage the sensor or anything else on the machine.

Maytag pointed me to the information on their website that explains in great detail how the auto water level sensor works and also said it is programmed to sense that the lid was opened to possibly add more clothes and then will fill the tub to the max level. I was also told that depending on which cycle you choose it may fill the tub fully depending on several variables.

I also think BlueCrewGuy owes RaceDave an apology for blaming RaceDave for the problem instead of helping resolve it with factual information instead of blaming the customer and giving out wrong information.

Here is the information I was told by Maytag explains how the system works.

Question

The amount of water seems too low in my load-sensing Energy Star top-load washer with agitator.

Answer

Your washer has Auto Load Sensing, which determines the right amount of water for each and every load, based on your clothes load and cycle you have chosen. On average, this washer can save up to 15 gallons of water per load compared to a washer without load sensing. In some cases, the wash load is not completely submerged in water. This is normal.   

To maximize your water and energy savings, do not open the washer lid during the cycle.

Did you lift the lid to check the water level? 

If you raise the lid to add more laundry, add detergent, catch water for diluting fabric softener or check the water level, you will not have the full benefits of water and energy savings. 

This is what happens when you open the lid:

The washer will stop. Opening the lid, after fill or during the cycle, sends a signal to the control that you may have added more items to your load. The washer then fills to the maximum water level. This is normal and ensures there is enough water for any amount of newly added items.

To maximize your water and energy savings, do not open the washer lid during the cycle.

By the way I didn't cancel my order after receiving the right information from Maytag and have notified Sears Corporate about the misinformation and rudeness of their employee who should be here to help and not try to talk down on customers with a problem.

His generation of load sensor was damaged by lid opening. The sensors have been changed. The Maytag information is valid for CURRENT models, but not for previous models. I know it's fun to think that there's some conspiracy, or that I'm a monster, but the fact is that I'm still correct. This is my career. I make it my business to know what is going on with the products I sell. Don't mistake being direct and correct for being mean. I don't flower my responses with lots of warm fuzzies. I cut to the chase. I don't even care so much if someone wants to be insulting towards me, but I do need honesty in answers to my questions if any solution is to be found.

If all you worry about is being correct then customer service is not the area you need to be in. Maybe repair or somewhere you dont talk to people and you can be right about everything.

Number one in customer service, listen to the complaint. Try to get information without further agitating the customer. Number two, find a way to relay information or resolve the issue without FURTHER AGITATING THE CUSTOMER. Remember, customers are what keep you in business.

So, BlueCrew said "If you are going to open the lid, you have to stop the cycle, then open, then close, then resume. Opening the lid without stopping the cycle first damages the sensor and screws up the filling." 

Now that we know opening the lid will not damage the sensor, will "stopping the cycle, then open, then close", help with the washer to not overfill?.

What a bunch of angry people in this world!  Leave the Sears guy alone, he was trying to help!  Just because your mad at the machine and didn't get the response you wanted???  Give me a break!  Sears guy, you're never going to be helpful to this person because this person just wants to shout at someone -