Lawn & Garden Discussion Board

Snowblower Engines

shodanyzf — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:50:08 GMT

BlueCrewGuyInMA said... However, I apologize for previously making definitive statements. I may have been overstepping my bounds a bit.

Thanks for your honesty and continued support...your a respectable gentleman !!!

Wally P : thank you for your candor, much appreciated.

After pressing a Sears sales rep I too was told that the engine was a "Chinese built Briggs". I assume they are instructed to tell that to the public in order to maintain the continued confidence and integrity of Craftsman products. Assuming that people will believe that even if it's a Briggs foreign subsidiarily building the engine it must still be a quality product.

Glad to hear of the positive reliability of these engines.

jimmychoi : Excellent detective work, great info !!! Thanks for taking us a step closer to the probable truth.

This is a great forum, please keep the information flowing.

Knowledge = Power

Thanks, Russ

Snowblower Engines

jimmychoi — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 05:32:59 GMT

On February 8, 2006,GPP learned that MTD had entered a long-term exclusive distribution agreement with Zongshen and that as a result, MTD had world-wide exclusive righrs to sell Zongshen Engines.
www.worldlawdirect.com/article/2659/tortious-interference-business-relationship.html

Look at this snowthrower with a Zongshen engine...look familiar??

http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/poly-run/product-detailsbjJXVhDAmIi/China-Gasoline-Snow-Blower-PR7655-1-.html

specs:

Horse Power 6.5HP(with MTD engine)
660MM clearing width
Two stage operation
Self--propelled
180 degree chute rotation allows you to direct where snow is thrown
Six forward and two backward speeds.
Push button electric start or manual starter
Trac tires provide maximum traction
Features:
1. Premium Zongshen 6.5HP Horizontal gasoline engine,
Four stroke, single cylinder
2. Low-Oil-Level Shut-down System
3. Handle-Mounted Trigger controls makes turning,
Reversing and steering very easy
4. Spees: Six forward and two Reverse.

Snowblower Engines

jimmychoi — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 05:11:20 GMT

Well...it's good we're are getting closer to knowing the source of our snow thrower's engines...LCT and Zongshen are two decent engine manufacterers, so that's good. Troy Built finally put somewhat of a link up to the powermore engines..... http://www.troybilt.ca/troybilt/powermore.asp
It just makes sense since MTD has invested heavily in Zongshen for a few years now... in addition to the anouncement of a newly developed "winterized engine." With Tecumseh not making engines, it would make sense that another source for winterized engines would break into the market to compete with Briggs..

BlueCrewGuyInMA said…

I spoke with our vendor rep yesterday, and he had mentioned two manufacturers: LCT and Zongshen. He's checking with his boss about this, but everything I've seen says LCT. However, I apologize for previously making definitive statements. I may have been overstepping my bounds a bit.

Snowblower Engines

WallyP — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 03:05:08 GMT

I don't think we're going to know for sure. I've been having this debate with my vendor for over a year now when the 88755's and 88955's showed up with "Craftsman" engines. He flat out refused and still refuses to tell me. At our annual spring training seminar they refused to tell us as well.

As it happens the store I work in is within 20 miles of two dealer stores. The owner of one of those stores told us that while at some convention of dealer store owners they were told the engine was a "Chinese built Briggs". I take that as a Chinese built MTD since most people associate Briggs and MTD anyway.So from everything I can gather I would say Zongshen.

That being said, I don't really think it matters all that much. The typical consumer doesn't ask and doesn't seem to care either. What I do know (from my lake effect snow haven) is that my store sold more snow throwers with Craftsman branded engines then we could have hoped for in '08-'09 and we seen the lowest return rate we had in years. If people weren't storming back in with that 179cc in storms in which the county stopped running plows because it was a losing effort then I think they can and will continue to carry their weight.

Snowblower Engines

BlueCrewGuyInMA — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:48:59 GMT

I spoke with our vendor rep yesterday, and he had mentioned two manufacturers: LCT and Zongshen. He's checking with his boss about this, but everything I've seen says LCT. However, I apologize for previously making definitive statements. I may have been overstepping my bounds a bit.

Hydro Transmission

Firsttractor — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:13:02 GMT

There has been quite a bit of discussion about manual vs hydro transmissions for plowing, snow blowing, hill climbing and pulling a load.

Let's start with the obvious.

First,a lawn tractor, is for mowing. It is not primarily designed to haul, plow or blow snow. It does it's primary purpose well and it may or may not do secondary tasks as well. (A snow blower blows snow very well but it does a poor job of cutting grass.)

Secondly, a tractor with a hydro transmission will make mowing a lawn with a lot of landscaping a breeze and will mow large open fields just as easy as any other tractor transmission. A tractor with a manual transmission will make mowing large open fields a breeze but make mowing a lawn with a lot of landscaping a tedious pain.

Thirdly, a hydro trnsmission is less efficient than a manual transmission. (there is a loss of engine torque because of the automatic transmission. Not a massive amount, but certainly a measurable amount.)

I bought a tractor with the hydro trnasmission primarily because of its convenience in mowing. I had concerns in its reliability and after researching it, I was satisfied that it was as reliable, if not more reliable, than a standard transmission. I also plan to plow snow with it. After reading that people were having problems with it going up hills and for snow removal, I decided to do more research (should have done this before my purchase, but I didn't)

So I have done a lot, and I mean a LOT of research.

The first thing I realized is that I need to re-learn my understanding of making the tractor go. It's contrary to my natural instincts. With a car, when I push the pedal down, the engine turns faster and puts out more hp and torgue to the transmission which makes the car go faster. With a tractor the engine is to be run at its fastest optimum speed already.

The blades and deck are designed to work best at this maximum engine speed. Lower the speed of the engine and the cut is poor. (Consider how well an axe would do if you tried to push it through a tree rather than swinging it to make a cut.)

Consequently the trnsmission is designed to operate at maximum engine speed. So speed of the tractor is controlled by the transmission. With a manual tranny, if you start out in first gear with maximum torgue going to the wheels and if the load is too great, and the wheels don't have enough traction, the wheels spin. If the wheels have traction and the load is too great, the engine stalls. Either way, the load is too much for the machine and the task cannot be done. Shifting from first gear to fourth gear wont help. Such is the reality of physics.

From the numerous sources I have read, the hydro will put out almost as much torque to the wheels as a manual tranny will.

A hydro trnasmission consitsts of two units, a pump and a motor. Because the engine is running at maximum speed and the hydro pump is direct belt drive off of the engine, the pump is always operating at maximum. In nuetral, no fluid enters the motor, it flows through a bypass valve and returns to a reservoir to be rcycled though the pump. When the pedal or lever is moved, a valve is opened to allow fluid from the pump to enter the tranny motor. The further you push the pedal down or move the lever forward the more fluid is alowed to pass into the tranny motor. The more fluid into the tranny motor, the faster you go. For instance, one gallon of fluid per second to the motor makes the tractor move slowly and four gallons per second makes the tractor move faster. But, whether it's one gallon or four, the preasure created by the pump is the same, so the torque/power to the wheels is the same because the pump is always producing at its maximum. If the hydro wont handle the load at a small depression of the pedal or movement of the lever, it's not going to handle the load at a greater depression of the pedal or movement of the lever any more than a manual tranny will handle a load better in fourth gear than it handles it in first gear. Apparently,the difference is, instead of stalling the engine as happens with a manual, the hydro will send fluid to a bypass. The problem is when you are trying to send more fluid though the motor and there is too much load, the fluid will heat up, making the tranny heat up, which causes wear and eventual failure.

If the tractor with a hydro wont handle the load at slow speed, increasing the speed will only cause the tranny to fail. Likewise, if a manual wont handle the load in first gear, it wont do it in fourth gear. The difference is with the manual you'll ruin a belt and with the hydro you'll ruin the tranny---either way the job wont get done. So, use some common sense and save yourself some expense and frustration by knowing your machines' limitations.

Snowblower Engines

shodanyzf — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:01:20 GMT

To all interested, I spoke on the phone with Stacey the customer service representative of LCT yesterday and asked her to confirm if her company supplied engines to Sears. Her response was that they in fact do for certain, but for not all product lines. Stacey stated that the engine model number prefix of LCT supplied engines would begin with either of these three: PLMH, LMH, LDH. The engine model number is engraved into the engine block on the flat side opposite the cylinder. She also told me that an engine manual is supplied along with the product owners manual and that the engine, besides the model number prefix markings, would be clearly marked as an LCT product !!!

Examine your engine with the above information provided by LCT customer service and draw your OWN conclusion. I inspected my 2009/10 Sears Craftsman model number 88691 snowthrower and concluded that the engine on my machine was not supplied by LCT.

The $64,000 question still remains... who in fact builds the engine installed on my snowthrower ???

Any comments are welcome.

Thanks, Russ

Get Ready for Snow

Antoine — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:45:12 GMT

In addition to oil, there are two other accessory items that should ALWAYS be picked-up during each snow thrower purchase: always pick-up a bag of shear pins,a definite must have and helps guard against major internal damage during snow removal. Shear pins prevent major internal damage to a dual stage snow thrower by shearing or breaking from the auger. Secondly, a gas can which allows you to fill up your unit and continue usage. Besides the snow accessories mentioned above, we also have: Covers - Provides protection against rust, dirst, and sun damage featuring a custom-like fit. Light Kit - Clearing driveways and sidewalks can be completed quicker and safer; especially between dusk and dawn. Wheel Drive Belts - allows for self propelled operation on dual stage snow throwers. Auger Belts - Distributes power to the augers for snow removal. Snow Thrower Cab - provides the snow thrower operator protection from the elements. Spark Plug - helps ensure a quick and easy engine start. Engine Key - replacement safety key to allow for unit operation in event that key is misplaced/lost.

Get Ready for Snow

SHC-BarbR — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:32:00 GMT

Hi, someone had a comment about the dipstick.The dip stick is designed to be flexible which prevents it from harshly rubbing against the side walls of the tube. The dip stick is secured in place with a significant screw.
Please note that Craftsman engines have been tested to over 400 hours and we have never experience a failure with this part. There also has not been any service issues with this design.

question on home service

fishfacejr2 — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:26:05 GMT

i have the rear tine, its a drt 17 inch i think

Get Ready for Snow

madgolfer — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:13:10 GMT

So if it wears out, not covered. Where's the Lifetime or Forever Warranty in that?

question on home service

SHC-GinaF — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:11:13 GMT

Can you tell me what tiller you have? Is it a front tine or a rear tine?

Premixed Gas & Oil

shc-mikeh — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:52:03 GMT

I love it. No mess. Really easy. Transportable.

What is Sears Missing?

SHC-DeanS — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:44:31 GMT

You're giving us great ideas to use as workshops. We're going to relaunch our Kmart marketing platform this year for L&G and should think of adding these events. Stay tuned...I'm sure there will be more to come...

What is Sears Missing?

HI-Manager — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:06:58 GMT

I think we should have some Demo workshops on the new Craftsman innovation tools. We should have been demo'ing the new Propane Line trimmer during last spring but that never went through. The more demos the better. They drive sales and customer interaction.

What is Sears Missing?

houdiniphile — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:30:01 GMT

Which plants to buy, and when
Growing them in the container provided
Transplaning to ground or other container
Popular windowsill, or patio garden
Ever hear of the "6 ft garden"
trellises for pole beans
Wrap up class with coupon,$5 off $50? good that week only?

What is Sears Missing?

houdiniphile — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:14:47 GMT

@SHC-DeanS Thanks for listening, and for explaining the pitfalls of the automatic lawnmower. I will just have it done as usual.

I am checking Home Depot right now. Most of the workshops are about tools. Will get back to you soon with class ideas, and what can be cheaply and effectively done.

What is Sears Missing?

thatmanguy — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:42:20 GMT

A few interesting products from the blog world ...

Dyson-like wheelbarrow - http://toolmonger.com/2009/04/30/the-nubarro-the-ballbarrow-reincarnated/#more-23853

Aeration spikes for your back tires on your tractor - http://toolmonger.com/2009/06/01/mow-and-aerate-with-your-riding-mower/

If we did get a few compost bins into stores, maybe we would get this type of spreader also - http://toolmonger.com/2008/12/02/compost-spreader/

A nice "twist" to the post hole digger - http://toolmonger.com/2008/09/24/iwan-auger/

Also, there are some companies with lawn care robots that have "grass sensing" technology, a great alternative to laying down wires and maintaining the perimeter. No clear winner on reliability and proven freedom from wires ... encouraging nonetheless.

What is Sears Missing?

SHC-DeanS — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:36:56 GMT

great idea...give me an example of a workshop we can do that you cannot find at Home Depot? We can get these set up quickly...

What is Sears Missing?

houdiniphile — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:31:38 GMT

ok back to lawn and garden, what Sears and KMart are missing is the workshops that make the customer feel overconfident in his her abilities, provide some valuable instruction, and buy, buy, buy. Home Depot has it. It works pretty well!